Could you please clarify the pronounciation-matter with the word SEPT?
In my book it states that the final consonants of the numbers 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are silent before a word beginning with a consonant.
One of the examples it gives is:
sept plumes (seh plüm) - no "p" or "t" pronounced. If this is correct, then,e.g., in the date 1750 the "sept" would
Sorry - my computer did it again! it posted before I was finished with the sentence.
The sentence should have read: if this is correct, then the word "sept" in 1750 should be pronounced "seh" .
Is that correct or should it be pronounced "set", like it was stated earlier on?
Thank you so much!!!
http://www.jiskha.com/display.cgi?id=1244070552
I thought this was quite clear:
Mathmate: "The word sept is very special. Of all the common French words that start with sept, only in four words the p is not pronounced:
sept (seven)
septième (seventh)
septmoncel (a cheese)
septain (a seven verse poem)
"Even in the old word for seventy (septant) still used in Belgium, the p is pronounced."
I could not post last night as my computer seems to be in one giant "loop" with Firefox.
J
Thank you you all so very much.
http://www.jiskha.com/display.cgi?id=1244070552
http://www.jiskha.com/display.cgi?id=1244070552
E.G.
I appreciate you being persistent on this question, which prompted me to do a little more research, and here is what I found. (see references 1 and 2)
In summary, what your teacher stated as rules for pronunciation are gererally accurate. However, there are particular cases that I will summarize below.
Specifically for the case of the number 7 that you have posted, it used to obey the rule, but today there is only one spoken version, namely “set”.
It is complicated by the fact that the spoken language is not like a law that can be switched over night. Therefore it is definitely possible that there are still textbooks and groups of people who are still using the old rule, which for 7 is considered archaic.
In fact, what has put doubts in my mind is that I recall having heard the expression “sept jours” pronounced as (seh) jours as you or your teacher suggested. The same person also pronounced “la nuit” as “la nuite”, which is also archaic. This retention of archaic pronunciation occurs quite frequently in isolated areas which have limited contact with the “outside” world, so the language got passed on from one generation to another without change. This happens most of the time in French speaking countries outside of France (Belgium, Swiss, Eastern and Southern Europe, Quebec) .
Hope the above summary clears up the doubts and discussions about the word “sept”, and explains why the current pronunciation rule differs from that of your teacher..
We will now look into the details (translated from ref. 1, section 574C)
A cardinal number terminated by a consonant in writing is pronounced differently under different conditions:
1. it is isolated.
2. it is a determinant before a consanant.
3. it is a determinant before a vowel.
- Sept has only one pronunciation, namely [set]
- Un, deux, trois, cent have a special form as determinants before a vowel. Un oeuf, deux hommes, trois élèves, cent Euros. (due to liason)
Neuf normally pronounced [noef] becomes [noev] only before ans, heures, and hommes.
- vingt [ve] is pronounced [vet] when acting as determinants before a vowel or in complex numbers, as in vingt hommes, vingt-six. However, we pronounce as [ve] when vingt is multiplied (quatre-vingt-six, etc)
Cinq [sek] and huit [uit] lose the ending consonents when used as a determinant before another consonant.
Six [sis] and Dix [dis] have two other forms: [si] and [di] as determinants before a consonant, but become [siz] and [diz] as determinants before a vowel.
Remark: before the name of a month, and before pour cent (%), a mixed usage is noted, namely between [sis] and[si], [dis] and [di], [uit] and [ui].
References :
1. Le bon usage, Grevisse, 12th edition revised in by André Goosse
2. Le Petit Robert, the new electronic edition.
be pronounced as "seh."
The pronunciation of "sept" as "seh" aligns with the rule you mentioned - that the final consonants of the numbers 5 to 10 are silent before a word beginning with a consonant. In the case of "sept plumes," the "p" and "t" in "sept" are not pronounced. This rule applies in some French dialects.
As for the pronunciation of "sept" in the date 1750, it would depend on the context and regional accent. In French, "sept" means "seven," so if you're referring to the year 1750, it would typically be pronounced as "dix-sept-cent-cinquante" (dee-seht-sahn-seh-sahn-tenk). However, depending on the speaker's accent or dialect, they may choose to follow the silent consonant rule and pronounce it as "dix-seh-cent-cinquante."
It's important to note that language pronunciation can vary based on region, dialect, and personal preference. So, while there are general pronunciation guidelines, individual speakers may have their own unique way of pronouncing words.